does Israel have 'a right to exist"?

Its not based on a book, its based on a mass of archeological evidence, thousands of books (all backing the others up), oral and documented law passed from generation to generation, etc.

Islam relied on the word of the prophet Muhammad, Christianity - Jesus, Buddhism – Buddha. Judaism is different the Jews claim that g-d revealed himself to 2.5 million people (that’s quite a brash claim to make), not only that but these 2.5 million people confirmed this (in a whole host of historical, Jewish, genealogical and archeological information).

But outside of this detailed recording of events the actual contents of the Torah is phenomenal, for example how did a bunch of men sitting around in Israel know every single species of weird animals in Australia and England?

The Torah makes two bold claims. One is that every word of it is true or the entire thing is garbage. It also claims that in the history of the earth, there will only be four species of animals that either split their hoofs or chew their cud, but not both. If even one animal other than the pig, camel, rock badger, and jackrabbit ever show up on the planet chewing its cud or splitting its hoofs but not both, then the entire Torah is garbage. That's a pretty bold claim to make for a bunch of men sitting around thousands of years ago. Amazingly to this day those men are and were correct about those four types being the only ones. So, why would they chance it? And, how on earth could they be so lucky as to be correct? The odds against both of those things happening are astronomical.

Obviously one can chose to skeptical about the Torah, but that’s beside the point – the revealing of hashem at mnt Sinai is well documented by modern historical standards – of course we can question it just as we can question the existence of Boadicea – but modern evidence would suggest both events happened.

The question isn’t whether or not the Jews believed they witnessed hashem, the question should be was it really hashem.

I agree, I'm not trying to prove the existence of hashem... I have problems with large sections of Judaism myself and I consider myself Jewish

I'm merely commenting on events modern historians believed to of happened.

The Hebrews were slaves.
For some reason they were set free (whether it was the result of tragedy the Egyptians believed the Jews to be responsible for is speculation).
There is a mass of evidence that suggests the Hebrews believed Hashem spoke to them on mnt sinai (it could of been a black guy with a megaphone for all I know).

I'm not suggesting that Judaism is true or false, I'm looking at the events from a historical perspective.

I just said the very same thing.

But for the modern atheist to comprehend the entirety of Judaism would be equal to me trying to understand a conversation on nuclear physics... Over the last two years I've engrossed myself in Jewish study - initially I wanted to disprove it, but the more I read the more enlightened I felt... I think it was the science behind the Torah which really captured my imagination.

But as a rookie to Judaism it is unlikely that I’d be able to project what little I’ve read in a manner that it could be comprehended by you hardline atheists

i'd say i'm an agnostic - however - i still know very little about it!

not really livig up to your name

being the man of science, it's more a state of mind

I'm an upstanding young Catholic boy. Don't group me in with these heathens.

maybe you have a point there ! hey it aint my fault and i supose know ing my luck i'll spend an eternity in hell force fed crab sticks listening to re-runs of judge jules on radio 1 think that bastard joe was right!!! now what the fuck am i gunna do ?

Im no atheist I just dont believ in any specific religion as they have all been tainted by the hand of man and therefore corrupted in some way .

Tho i do believe in a higher power i do not claim to know much about it nor follow any rules which it may or may not have set .

what do you believe the purpose of creation to be?

I dont know mate . im happy to spend my time finding out just living and enjoying it . why do you need a purpose of creation ? what do you believe it to be ?

same here m8 why waste time worrying bout somthin that has no impact on your life what so ever

the PURPOSE of creation? the universe doesn't have a purpose - it simply exists and we just happen to be around at 1 point in it's time line. we'll be long gone soon from this insignificant spec of a planet and the universe will keep on growing/dying

do you believe the universe had a starting point?

if only the rest of mankind could aspire to be like you

i wouldnt have thought so as an infanate is just that it's an age old question that would just drive someone mad trying to figure out tbh. point is dose it really matter would actually knowing improve your life in any way or make you a better person at the end of the day all you'd say id yes or no and it would change nothing !

i dunno... they reckon there's lots of evidence for this - so yeah, probably. as to what was before it - probably another univerise that ended maybe? the birth of this universe was the end of the previous one maybe? as to whether the 'big bang' was the START of everything - i don't think so, that would mean something or SOMEONE had to start it off. i think it's always existed, destroying itself every so often then re-starting.

they still think the universe is expanding at the moment (the last stephen hawkin program i saw)

i think people or maybe human kind have evolved to a point where they NEED to have some kind of reason to be here to make them feel like what they do has a reason or they've acheived something in their lives. it's human nature.