does Israel have 'a right to exist"?

does Israel have 'a right to exist"?

I have completely lost it with the Israelis now. What they are doing to lebanon is sheer bloody carnage. They are wrecking a whole country which has been trying hard to rebuild itself after the last Israeli carnage and had just started with a viable tourist industry which has now been bombed to fuck.
It just creates more hatred and will result in more carnage.
They were wronged so badly in WW2 and drew the lesson that they must never again allow themselves to be weak but they have gone the other way now and are acting like bullies.
They started the state with terrorism and they have gone on to destabilise the middle east for 50 years. They have had over 60 billion dollars of military aid from the US since 1948 and then bleat about Iran supplying Hisbullah with a few rockets.
They even have nuclear weapons which they are quite likely to use. They are a danger to the world.

Awaits Joe's outraged response with interest.....

Agree that my limited support for the Isreali's is rapidly evaporating given their current behaviour. In answer to your question yes they do have a right to exist (formally recognised by a UN resolution). However the manner in which they are existing, despite being under acknowledged provokation and threat appears to flout decent standards of behavour.

Yet who are we to talk?? Afghanistan was a state 'sheltering' a 'terrorist' group who, along with the Americans, we caused widespread destruction within. Without wanting to sound too socialist whilst their remains a huge power and influence gap between nations such behaviour will go unpunished - especially if it is undertaken with the tacit support of the US, who in their infinite wisdom have decided the best way to tackle to terrorist threat facing them is to cause even more suffering in the Middle East than even their policies of the last 30 odd years have.

of course they have a right to exist you froot

Does Turkey have the right to exist - the Armanian genocide had a far higher detah toll than the 372 Lebanese that have died.

Can I ask how they don't have the right to exist?

i dont understand how some people can be so anti semetic.

We all try to strive for perfection

I'm not saying the jews don't have a right to exist, I'm saying the Israeli state has become the cause of so much hatred and war that it would have been better to have never created it. Remember it didn't exist before 1948.
We were in charge in palestine before that.
It is the only case in history that I can think of where a completely new state was created on someone elses land.
This is the root cause of all the trouble in the middle east and one of the main drivers of Islamic fundamentalism.

How was it someone elses land?!?!?

The Ottomans lost their empire and new borders were drawn up by the victors - its how pretty much every state in mans history was created!!!

Forks you're off form tonight homie

Are you suggesting the Jews have no claim to the land?

the lasses love me cock

They have a claim to the land but as with all conflicts of this nature (Ireland etc) so do the 'oppostion'.

Joe - I'd be interested to know if you genuinely think peace can be achieved through Isreal's current highly militaristic tactics?? Surely evidence would suggest not??

israel is being attacked by hizbullah, it has to defend its people. hizbullah hide in heavily populated areas, and its because of this innocent civilians get killed.

when the ottoman empire collapsed we created the british mandate territories. when we did that there was no Israel created. Increasing jewish immigration is what sparked arab resentment. The jews went from 10% of the population in 1919 to 30% of the population by 1945.
Lets imagine how much resentment it would cause if we had say 20 million pakistanis come to england over 25 years.
Even at those levels they were not a majority but by force of arms they took over the territory and declared the state of isreal.
lets imagine the 20 million pakistanis doing that in england.
how would we feel?
how did the arabs feel?
well they hated it and they have been trying to get the land back ever since.
Israel compounded this in 67 with their takeover of the west bank and further stoked resentment.
this is the cause of Hamas and hizbullah. and will only continue if the perceived injustice continues.
I worry that we are seeing the slow build up to world war three.
( which will make the casualties of WW2 look like chicken feed )

there speaks the unadulterated voice of rupert murdoch and the american neo-cons.

How would you propose they find peace?

Israel have constantly sought peace, but the current cycle of violence is to defend the nation from an onslaught of attacks.

We gave up the Gaza Strip and where did that get us? I'd rather open up dialogue when we're in a less threatened position... we give an inch and they use that inch to launch countless attacks on us.

Isreal did not 'give up' the gaza strip. It didn't belong to them in the first place

I'd disagree with that personally, Isreal whether launching reactive or proactive aggression tends not to hold anything back.

Again returning to Northern Ireland as an example evidence shows that both sides need to GIVE ground to create an atmosphere more conducive to peace. It may take a leap of faith by Isreal but for the sake of it's citizens future is that asking to much?? (Yes I know Isreal gave up nthe Gaza Strip but the current sanctions against Palestine are hardly calming the situation.)

lets try this scenario.... Israel withdraws from the land it illegally occupied in 1967. it pays reparations and really tries to make amends for the ruination of Lebanon. It allows the creation of and assists in the economic developement of a VIABLE palestinian state and vows to live in peace with it's neighbours.
It withdraws from the settlements on the west bank
It allows Jerusalem to become an internationally governed city
If it was then attacked it would have the support of the whole world and people could see it was the sufferer of injustice.
instead of the other way round

"pulled out" - word it however you like the results remain the same

pakistanis dont have any historical claim to england, they dont have a history further than 50 years ago here so your argument is completely flawed.

semites have been present in the holy lands for centuries, as have various other peoples. the jews deserve a nation of their own otherwise they will be persecuted as minorities... if jews wanted to stay in the holy lands under islamic rule then there is a good chance they would be relegated to dhimmi status. whats the alternative? there are countless muslim nations yet 1 jewish state, and that state has been open to attack since its creation. i fully support israel in defending its borders... especially in close proximity to nations that want to see its destruction.

how can anyone justify terror groups like hamas and hizbullah? yes many lebanese civilians are put at risk, but the lebanese government needs to remove hizbullah from its country... as senior government officials have supported hizbullah's actions i cant see this happening and its hard to blame israel for being paranoid.

israel dont do themselves favours at times but the islamic nations are a far bigger threat to stability and peace in the middle east.

Northern Ireland is completely different the IRA's goal was not the destruction of Israel... How do you talk to someone that's only goal is your total destruction?

The current situation is the result of Palestinian attacks! We pulled out and they launched a wave of attacks... How else should Israel respond to persistant rocket attacks, suicide bombings and troop kidnappings?